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Carl is on the right path. I would start with the temperature gun, to see if the issue is more in the engine or radiator. Take a reading at the radiator outlet, then the neck of the upper hose as it leaves the block. Compare the temperature rise across the block, then the temperature fall across the radiator. All the heat from the engine is dissapated by the radiator, but at what temperatures?
The inlet to the radiator will match the engine exit temperature. The fan and airflow will cool the water going through it. If the radiator exit to still hot after driving or is losing water out the overflow, the radiator becomes the first suspect. Even at reduced flow from a collapsed hose, the radiator will reject as much heat it can and its exit temperature should be OK unless something has fouled the inside sutface. Idling or slow parades can cause a heat up as there is no wind across the radiator.
If the water leaving the radiator is cool, it is likely not that it is the source of the problem. If the water entering the engine is cool enough then something is either reducing flow thru the engine side or producing more heat. The temperature sensor is near the back of the head and basically measuring water outlet temperature, which makes it fairly accurate.
There are four major engine side low restriction sources: collapsed pump intake hose; low water level; thermostat not fully open; and rust/gunk clogging the water passages of the engine. If the hose has collapsed, you may hear rattling noises in the pump using a stethoscope (cavitation). Water level is easy to check. Thermostat in the engine exit and water jacket require opening and checking. Do the easy ones first.
The other set of problems comes from too much heat generated by the engine. Lean fuel mixture can cause this issue. Good Luck. Herb
David
The three speed transmission from 1930 is likely to be similar to the one in my ’29 and the parts book. If so, there are four things to check before doing something drastic to the shift forks.
(1) Operate the engine while on the jack stands is to see if the same noise is there in neutral; if so, one of the ball bearings may have a problem, allowing the teeth to not mesh on their proper radial line of contact.
(2) Check the ball bottom end of the gearshift rod, it engages the pockets on the shift rails. On an old Allis Chalmers tractor I had years ago, the shift lever engagement ball was quite worn out where it refused to fully engage with the shift rails; it required significant weld build-up to make it behave. (3) Are the shifter collars on the top of each rail worn out where the gear shift ball engages?
The other area is the shift rails to the rear of the shift tower where several potential problems can exist. (4) There is a detent ball and spring unit on the outside of each rail and a locking piece between the rails. There are three detent pockets on each rail; holding engagement into the forward, neutral and rearward position of each rail. These ball and spring units need to move freely [Is a spring broken?] and the detent pockets on the rails need to be gunk-free so the ball can engage properly to hold the gears in their proper axial engagement positions. A lock piece appears to float between the two rails to keep them separated while shifting and the ball is outside the detent pocket. If the lock does not slide freely or the ball does not seat properly into each detent pocket, the shifting will be difficult.
If the car has been sitting for a long time, some condensation may have cause some corrosion and general gunk on these parts above the oil level. If the rail does not shift all the way to the end detent pocket, the gear teeth are only partially engaged axially, which would cause some noise in each one. This inspection is pretty easy once the tower is off and does not involve operating the engine.
All these checks can be made before removing the collars and bending them; if you do pull the shift forks out, pay close attention to the wear marks on each side which should be equal, indicating even load is applied evenly on the left and right side of the fork. If wear is even, then these parts are not deformed or bent.
Best Regards, Herb Tull
I know it isn’t totally kosher, but being the old engineer, I tend to over-think most everything. From my days doing industrial design and specifications, I require the contractor label each end of a wire with the same designation. Most switchgear comes from the factory with all their instrumentation and controls with the same gray wire – an nothing labeled. Following my own demands, I used a wire stick-on number set, using the same number on each end of each wire. I even went as far as labeling the coils and each pocket on the distributor cap. It does make life easier if you remove any of the wires from the distributor and see the label of where to reconnect it. Tracing and verifying each wire is still good at the next tune-up is soooo much easier this way. Herb
To Bob Coates: Recently I changed the upper hose in my ’29 to get rid of the old Toyota molded hose that a previous owner had installed. The new straight hose having a thicker wall didn’t bend, so I had to remove the coolant elbow from the block to make it fit. A surprise in there was a modern 165F thermostat. Not sure if there was a spot for it to fit originally, or someone machined it,in the elbow, block, or both. The car stays cool even on hot days with the gauge needle in the middle of the range. The radiator has the original bellows thermostat parts installed, but no idea if they are functional. If the shutters stay open, that would explain why the car has a chromed stone guard to hide the black shutters. If your car is apart enough to machine the elbow or head, it may be a reasonable alternative to having a long fight with the original bellows unit. Good luck and no matter which way you decide to go, keep you cool. Herb
One more Pierce saved from the scrap heap – it’s a really good thing. Congratulations on the interesting vehicle you built – it has a high Cool factor. From the overall look, I agree that towing power is more than adequate but would worry more about stopping power when towing the car and bobcat as Greg suggested. It looks like you have addressed the issues around a ’30’s manual brake system under such a heavy load, so that concern should already be solved. Good luck and safe journeys – I’ll see you next year. Herb
Jim,
Just like squeezing a truck through the underpass by deflating the tires, will your Lester tire fit the well and use the cover if you let out enough of the air? I understand that having a flat in the middle of nowhere is when you REALLY need a way to re-inflate that spare tire. There have been too many bad jokes about the spare being flat to not have an answer. If there is a reliable way to re-inflate the spare when it is needed, then looking for a way to use your side-mount hardware may be a reasonable thing to investigate.
Several hand held / battery operated tire pumps are available for reasonable prices. Having a cordless battery powered one may solve the re-inflation issue. Herb
Back in my power plant days, we used a woven fiberglass “fire blanket” material to good effect. We used this fireproof, flexible fabric to contain cutting flames, weld splatter, grinder sparks and dust during hot work. It was very effective as a safety product to protect from heat and debris. We purchased it by the roll, but smaller quantities should be available. It was a white to gray color and had larger diameter threads. Knives or heavy shears will cut it to length and width, then it can be held in place with tie wires or metal straps. Check with a welding supply house for availability. Consider a couple of layers as thermal insulation around the pipe and mufflers to keep heat away from your feet and fuel lines. Herb.
James,
I had my sending unit rebuilt by Tri Starr Radiator ( Dan OHara, [email protected] ) and they did a very good job, replacing the cork float with brass, installing a new rheostat coil, thoroughly cleaned all the parts, and assembled it with the correct gears, all for a reasonable price. I can highly recommend them for this task.
It is worth an email or phone call to see if he has or can recommend where to get one.
The unit was manufactured by The W.C. Hagel Elec Co. and is a model RKD Gauge (sending unit)
Herb
I remember when “kit” cars were pretty popular …. Yep, you have one here!
At least it stayed out of the crusher long enough for you to make the rescue.
Congratulations on your new project. Herb
Oops..Pi Day is next Tuesday. Calendars are wonderful when read correctly. My apologies for the date mix up.
For those of us using an Allen Synchrograph Model 30-89 distributor machine, a free download of the Operator’s Manual is available on the internet. The document was prepared in 1966 by the Army for their own use and updated during that same era. Because it was developed by a US Government agency and marked for unlimited distribution, it is available to all at no charge. It is well written and also covers distributors using dual sets of points for different cylinders, of which our cars with 8 cylinders using dual coils are one example. The link to the download site is:
https://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-9-4910-463-10.pdf
Regards, Herb
Jim, my ’29 has the three shoe, 15 inch brakes. These brake drums are steel and too thin to machine well. There is no source of new drums to fit a Pierce, so the shoes need to be made to fit the existing steel drums. Fitting new shoes to existing drums means wearing of the linings enough to fit in the existing drum grooves. Conforming the linings to the drum greatly increases the actual contact area between drum and shoes linings, making stops better. To conform molded linings, set the brake drag to match the wheel on both sides of the car. Do this for both the front and rear. Drive the car on a very quiet street while riding the brakes pretty hard (good to have a hand throttle). Many rounds of adjusting and driving are needed, but as the linings wear in, the car will stop much straighter and shorter. However, after conforming, that set of shoes will fit only the one drum. Woven linings have been preferred as they wear more quickly to match to the ridges of the drum. Molded linings take longer to wear in, but work well once conformed. Herb
Apparently, I am the designated contrarian on the website topic. Overall, I do like the drop-down menu system, much more than the “ribbon” style used by several current applications for office work. Many years ago, I was involved in several website designs and found the drop-downs easier to create, maintain and update with new colors, descriptors and other features than other navigation methods.
As for my suggestion; separating the member and non-member parts of the site does make sense, we should retain the separation, but make the guest / member sides more obvious. I recommend that one of the “pubic” pages or early in the pubic area, we provide detailed a navigation “map” explaining the Guest boundaries vs the Member areas. One possible way to designate this demarcation would be to use different color topic headers and drop-downs for the private vs public areas. Using color separation plus a detailed “map” of the entire site can be used as a marketing tool. Providing a fairly detained and descriptive list of member ares available to members only will let the prospective members see what they are missing by remaining a Guest. Allowing the guest to pull down the member topics (but with only blank data pages) will show the topics we provide as benefits to members . Certainly the public / private areas need to be separate, but the boundaries and “future features” once the guest joins can be presented more clearly.
OK, will get off my soap box now. Best Regards to all. Herb Tull
Lead-acid batteries will last longer than the 6 years if water is kept to the proper level and at full charge (hence use small trickle chargers when stored). The sure sign that a battery is on the way out is swelling of the case on sides or ends. Bulging of the case is a sure sign that at least one cell chemistry is/has sulfated over and is failing. One cause may be from inadequate charging (check voltage regulator or third brush settings). I have had 12 volt batteries in daily drivers that lasted 7+ years; while admittedly an extreme example, there is no reason to change batteries as long as voltage and specific gravity are within reasonable ranges.
Per Wikipedia: “As batteries cycle through numerous discharges and charges, some lead sulfate does not recombine into electrolyte and slowly converts into a stable crystalline form that no longer dissolves on recharging. Thus, not all the lead is returned to the battery plates, and the amount of usable active material necessary for electricity generation declines over time.
<span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>Sulfation occurs in lead–acid batteries when they are subjected to insufficient charging during normal operation.</span> It impedes recharging; sulfate deposits ultimately expand, cracking the plates and destroying the battery. Eventually, so much of the battery plate area is unable to supply current that the battery capacity is greatly reduced. In addition, the sulfate portion (of the lead sulfate) is not returned to the electrolyte as sulfuric acid. It is believed that large crystals physically block the electrolyte from entering the pores of the plates. Herb
According to Les Izmoor, simple is better in this application. The relay (flasher unit) is usually labeled “535” and available from $5 to $15 from several sources (NAPA part NF535 for $9.99). Being a simple coil and contact system, polarity should not matter.
I do recommend testing it on the workbench with a 6 volt lantern battery, a switch and a light bulb to verify it will work. the flasher mounts ahead of the switch. Label all the parts and make a wiring diagram for future reference. I keep mine in my Owner’s Manual.
Inside the car, install a 15 amp fuse in the power supply to the flasher to protect the rest of the turn signal wiring if the flasher fails closed. Herb
Jim,
Here is a suggested procedure to prepare and install your water pump suction line into your car.
First, clean the ends of the brass tube down to bare metal, being careful to remove all the old rubber contact material (probably copper sulfate from the vulcanized rubber). Be careful to do the final cleaning with a Scotch-Brite pad scrubbing around the tube, but not along it, shining it up. Remove all axial scratches as they can be the source of drips and leaks. The idea here is to make a length on each end clean and smooth enough for each new hose sections to slide completely onto the pipe, allowing this assembly to easily fit back into the car.
Second, Clean the crud from metal parts that will be on the other end of the hose as these will have to provide a sealing surface for the new hose. While this cleaning is not as important as the brass pipe, each must be clean enough to provide a good sealing surface.
Third, use a lubricant that will allow the hoses to slide easily on the brass surfaces and then back onto the mating pipes. I have seen glycerol lubricants used in both industrial and commercial environments with good success. However, most of these are made with an oil base leaving a residue. Adding any amount of grease into a cooling system is a bad idea. The best material for this application is a glycerol lubricant made from a water base to dissolve completely into radiator water without any negative consequences. The one I recommend is the famous KY jelly. Available at local drug stores in a convenient size tube for this task.
Fourth, apply the lubricant liberally to inside surface along the full length of each hose. Then apply liberally to the outside of the brass pipe at both ends, each a distance longer than the hose used. Each hose should now slip their full length onto the brass tube without much problem. Be sure to slide the both hose clamps onto each section of hose even before carrying the assembly to the car! I learned this lesson several times the hard way about putting both clamps on the hose before making the connections.
Fifth, once the new pipe and hose assembly is in the right location in the car, loosen both hose clamps on one hose and slide it off the tube until properly seated onto the mating part. Snug both clamps on this hose and then repeat the sliding procedure on the other hose to its mating part. You still can adjust the center pipe to where you want it, sliding along both hoses. Tighten all four hose clamps once adjusted and the cooling system should be ready to hold water, without introducing grease into your cooling system.
Regards, Herb
Reminds me of the 1976 Johnny Cash song “One Piece at a Time”. Watch the YouTube version. I do like the way whoever put this unusual vehicle together used the same part for both the tail light and the light on the back of the front fender. Clearly, lots of imagination went into building it. Were they sober at the time?
The Pierce headlight location patent (US1758305A) was set to expire in 1947 at the end of its protected period. It may have expired earlier when the company was liquidated in 1938. If no one pays the annual fee, the patent becomes “abandoned” which cancels the protection, moving it to the Public Domain. Since this vehicle looks to be newer than 1947, I don’t see a problem with placing the headlights where they did. Kinda cool, actually.
On the other hand, back into good condition, it would be a real head turner at local shows or the annual Christmas Parade. Go for it, Bill! What a cool Hot Rod you could have. Herb.
Randy
You can have your machinist buddy come measure you hub directly with a micrometer and a thread gauge. Measure the hub first with a ruler or tape, so he will know what size micrometer to bring.
Attached are two pictures of hub pullers from my copy of the “Pierce Authorized Maintenance Equipment” book. There are no page numbers, but you can see the different concepts. The Thomason type will be the most versatile, as you can m
ak
e it work with either of your cars by having two different thread inserts made. Good luck with the essential task of reworking the brakes. Herb Tull
Both elements of ending slumber can be fun. Waking and starting the old cars from their winter slumber for another enjoyable driving season or waking the house from their morning slumber. Having done several similar things in my past, I won’t ask which was more enjoyable. Beginning another season with the old cars is certainly more gratifying for a longer period of time, but waking the whole household can bring much more immediate excitement. To repeat the old Esso slogan, “Happy Motoring” to you and yours this summer. Herb
Thanks for all the complements on my Pierce, I do appreciate it and want to show it soon. I can tell that very few miles were driven during the last several years, so I will attend only local shows this summer. Building some driving hours will loosen things up and help smooth them out. Next year’s goal is driving to the Glen Falls meet but there is more stuff to sort out before going that far.
The brake shoes are molded and do seem to have about the right arch for the drums, or at least close enough. As expected, the steel drums have wear ridges and grooves around the braking surface. However, the shoes looked brand new and were very smooth across their faces. Having no mating grooves to fully engage all the drum surface really reduces actual contact area. Breaking in new shoes to match the drum’s actual surface profile will make the the brakes much more effective with more actual contact area between shoe and drum. After three cycles of run the brakes hard and then adjust the shoes on our last adventure, the old battery decided we were done for the day.
More hard down hill runs and then adjustments will wear the shoes for more stopping power, which is the immediate goal. We also seem to have significant lost motion in the pedal travel before the shoes contact the drums, likely from wear in the rod clevis mechanisms. Reworking all the clevis joints should cure much of the lost motion – but is a task for next winter when I can organize my tools and equipment around the car in my new garage. Herb
