Penrite LUB009 1200w

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Suggested by using this lubricant in our steering box that it is less likely to leak. https://www.restorationstuff.com

Should I try to flush out lube, or just drain it?

Also my steering box someone added a zerk fitting and I wonder if someone earlier used a grease gun to lube. An expert here in the PAS told me that a high-pressure grease gun could blow my steering box seals. I can’t see any indication but fear that this has happened in the past.

Should I try to remove chassis grease if present, and refill with Penrite LUB009?

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Hi Bill, The problem with regular grease or chassis grease is that it does not ‘flow’. By that I mean that if you had a dish on your work bench with a 1″ deep layer of chassis grease and your ran your finger in a line through the grease and let it sit for say month.

When you come back to the dish of grease, the groove in the grease you made would still be there.

In a steering gear box, you need the lubricant to flow, to try to level out and fill in any gouges or voids. The lubricant must return to the moving parts that had pushed the lubricant away as they moved..

So, if your gearbox WAS filled with chassis grease, then you should try to remove most of the grease, so that around the high-friction parts, the ‘worm and sector’ or ‘traveling nut’ or ‘worm and roller’, whatever your car has, that part needs to have a flowing-type lubricant on and around it. The chassis grease does not have to be ‘flushed’ out, there is no danger [that I’ve ever experienced or heard of] of having a bit of old chassis grease around inside the gearbox. If it mixes with the 1200w lubricant it won’t harm anything..

So, remove as much of the old grease if you can, [if it actually IS chassis grease, it might be gear lube ! ] The fill with your 1200w.

If you jack up the front axle, so both wheels are off the ground, and as you fill the steering gear box, turn the steering from full left to full right, this will circulate the new gear lube through the gearbox..

While your front wheels are off the ground,, grease the kingpins as well, and push/pull on the wheels and tires, to see that there is a slight about of bearing play, that the wheel bearings are not ‘snug’, they should have a slight bit of play.. but not excessive.

Also, this is a great time to slowly turn the wheel and tire, closely inspecting the sidewalls and tread for punctures, bits of glass, nails etc.. My last flat was from a 3/8″ triangular piece of glass, that had imbedded itself in a small lit or groove in the tread, and slowly was pushed through the tire, into the inner-tube. How that piece of glass survived long enough to be pushed deeply through the tire is a mystery,, the piece broke as it was removed from the tire..

Anyway, sorry for the side-tracking of your original question, but it needed some explanation..

Take care..

Driving Season is upon us !!

Greg Long

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Greg, NOT a sidetrack! I am printing your comments and a few other comments as well. Very helpful. Enjoyed our conversation at “Minnie’s Restaurant.”” I learn a lot from you.”

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The grease fittings on the steering box are correct. Use chassis grease.

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OK…..so Greg says remove the chassis grease from the gear box and Paul says use chassis grease.

Does anyone have a Pierce document that specifies what the factory recommends ??

This could be confusing to folks like me …..

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Gents,

Here is my 8/26/16 – Updated Information on the Lubrication of my Series 80 relating to the Steering Box.

The source of the Information is George Teebay.

I trust that this will help, but not end the controversy.

Peter

Steering Box: “600-W” from Model A Ford supplier OR SAE 140/160 GL4 gear oil. If it leaks

(and they often do) use either SAE 250 or Resto Supply’s Penrite 1200 weight steering box oil.

This is a time-consuming process: Remove fitting, insert very small funnel, pour some into

funnel and let drain. Will take 10-15 minutes before it will drain in and air can work its way out

to create room for more oil. Repeat until the box stays full for 15 minutes, then replace fitting.

If you’re using thick oil, it’s helpful to thin the oil by warming in sun or in pan of hot water

before pouring.

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Gents,

BTW, using the Penrite 1200 will do no harm, just in case someone is concerned, vis a vis, chassis grease vs. oil.

The Penrite is like molasses, or better, like 1200w steering box oil.

I also believe that there is a “dripless”” version of Penrite steering box oil on the market.

I’ll go and take some photos and post one soon.

Peter”

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Gents,

Here is more that I found upon reading all of my updated information.

Peter

Use ONLY 600W for the transmission and the steering box (see above re: Penrite 1200w

Steering Box Lube). Do NOT use the push-type gun for any of them–especially not for the

steering box because you can still blow out seals with that (NOTE that I heat the oil and use a

BIG Syringe with both holes open on the steering box). Heat a bottle in a pan of near-boiling

water then pour using a small-aperture funnel. I’d prefer to use the 600W from a Model A

Ford supplier for all 600W applications other than the transmission–but make sure you’re getting

the dark, smelly, viscous 600W and not the clearer, thinner stuff some sell as 600W but which I

think is just repackaged SAE 140.

NOTE: Anyone wishing a copy of my SERIES 80 LUBRICATION write-up, please send me an email and I will reply with the three page document.

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Gentlemen,

Greg is absolutely correct in his comments above. Please refer to my article in PASB 2011-1 for a complete discussion about grease and oil zerks. The steering gears are oiled with an oil gun, never with grease.

PASB 81-3 and PASB 88-4 have original PA Service Department Letters for Lube recommendations – Steering lubricant is to have “good cold and mobility characteristics” without providing a specific product.

I have 1936-38 lube charts from several companies. Richfield says SAE 140 gear oil, Summer and SAE 90 gear oil, Winter. Those old seals leaked a lot! My steering gear has a modern lip seal, so I use tranny oil.

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The lubrication of the steering gear varies for the early to later cars. For the Series 51 which began this discussion, the owners manual states ” Steering Gear Case (one gunful of Cup Grease)”” and “”Steering Gear Case Grease Cups (3)””. My Series 33 steering gear has Alemite pin type grease fittings which are original and take chassis grease. The gun type grease fittings on the Series 51 steering box referenced above are correct.”

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Paul, this maybe a situation in which materials have improved. Grease channels and will be wiped from the teeth. The 1918 48-B-5 manual specifies for the steering gear CASE “one gunful of liquid grease” and cup grease for three grease CUPS for bearings/bushings in the steering column. “Liquid grease” was also called “Special Compound” by Pierce-Arrow, both of which are 600-W steam cylinder oil, but there are better materials on the market today. We can/should use hypoid oil IF AND ONLY IF the results of the copper corrosion test are 1a. Please look at the document(s) –like I just did– and see if you agree.

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This is an excellent string by the folks who know the subject.

thanks for spending the time gents!

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Just to confuse things a little bit, the first bottle of steering box lube I got from restoration supply came in a bottle to be poured in. The last batch I bought came in a tube to be used in a grease gun.

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George, regarding,

We can/should use hypoid oil IF AND ONLY IF the results of the copper corrosion test are 1a. Please look at the document(s) –like I just did– and see if you agree.

Is the “hypoid oil” considered 600w? Will the Penrite 1200w work in our early cars?

Where are “the documents”?

If using Penrite, do you recommend (in our early cars like our 48-b) using the Penrite LUB009 in the steering box, and or other places using 600w?

https://www.restorationstuff.com/ecommerce/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=111_112&products_id=710&zenid=4fl86hlooa914n11n4j62umb84

VBR, Bill

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Just took apart a 1911 48 Hp rear end……it has grease in it. According to the people we spoke with it is correct. There is no way to add it after assembling the rear, so it must be packed in by hand before assembly. Comments?

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Excellent discussion……….don’t stop !

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Interesting! My C-3 uses 600W in the rear axle which is quite similar to that on a 1911.It is basically the old Duplex Liquid Grease specified in the handbook for the car.There are plugs so the level can be checked.

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The Active Link for George’s offering.

George & everyone, cut off the HTTP// from the front end and then paste the remainder into the Optional URL

Petr

http://www.restorationstuff.com/ecommerce/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=111_112&products_id=710&zenid=4fl86hlooa914n11n4j62umb84

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Gents,

If you are INJECTING liquid Grease / Thick Oil via the ZERK fitting, you should remove the second cover next to the ZERK fitting so that you don’t increase the pressure inside the steering box and blow out the seals.

It will also begin to overflow when the box is full.

Let the oil settle a bit (15-minutes) to release any bubbles and then see if it will take any more oil.

I prefer to install warmed oil into the second opening rather than pump it through the ZERK.

One time, I used a very LARGE SYRINGE to install the oil.

They are available for $1 – $2 at any Pharmacy, from the Pharmacist.

They are a very handy old-car instrument.

Peter

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Ed, what did the presumably 117 year-old grease look like and what shape

were the contents in? Shouldn’t the ring and pinion, which you have access to

by a removable plug, get 600 wt.?

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