We talked about this before and I thought something was being done at the CCCA, but for Pierce they only show the following as qualifying full classics:
Pierce-Arrow â€“ 1915-1924; All; 1921 Series 32; 1922 and up Series 33; 1925 All
No 12’s, no Silver Arrows, nothing later than 1925? Am i reading it wrong and the reference to 1922 and up should have a comma?
I have wondered about that, too. I keep seeing my Series 81 referred to as a “full classic,” but it isn’t on the AACA list.
They mean all Pierce Arrows from 1915 on up through 1938.Prior to the changes of a few years back,it was all Pierce Arrows from 1925 up through 1938.
I have advised CCCA of their erroneous listing, got an apology, but no correction on subsequent printing. ALL P-A’s from 1915 to 1938 are “Full Classics””.
This is so simple that some simpleton was required to mess it up!
This apparently is of limited interest to quite a few Pierce Arrow owners. There are currently 303 Pierce Arrows listed in the CCCA directory. Aren’t there over 1000 in the PAS, or am I wrong?
The Classic Car Club of America has accepted Pierce Arrows since its inception as well as many other luxury makes including Packards.I believe more people in recent years have joined the clubs that focus on the makes they collect.I really feel it is the prices of these cars that limit membership in many collector car clubs.
Pierce Arrow has ALWAYS been 100 percent acceptance with the CCCA. Having served on the board and been involved with them since 1982, and the youngest life member ever, I am quite certain of my comments. As the years were enlarged, the Pierce Arrow Motor Car never had any cars excluded. They were the best club in the hobby for a long time, then the PAS passed them many years ago……..thatâ€™s why I am here now…………great people, friendly, and accommodating to young people…..although I am no longer young!
Edgar……you say: “the Pierce Arrow Motor Car never had any cars excluded.” So does that mean my 1904 Pierce Stanhope and my 1909 Pierce Runabout and maybe my 1912 Pierce touring are “classics” and included.
I think not. In fact, like the CCCA the PAC has its focus on cars that are post “brass era” to the exclusion of most pre 1916 cars. I regret this degree of exclusiveness.
I will provide some background on this since I sent in a letter to the national board of the CCCA about 20 years ago proposing the the CCCA consider the quality cars of 1916 through 1924.My letter was undersigned by the signatures of a number of collectors so as not to be dismissed.I did not want to impede on the HCCA so 1916 I felt was a good beginning point.This change was accepted with some modifications by the board but then just a few years ago the board with as I recall a vote by the membership decided to go back to 1915 and from what I was told the HCCA had no issue with it probably due to the fact so few high quality cars from 1915 even survive.This makes cars like a 1915 Pierce Arrow,Packard or Cadillac for example both a Brass Age car and a Classic.A move I would like to see the CCCA make and if I recall correctly at one time they had a special interest class which would take in cars like a 1938 Ford Phaeton or a 1932 Chevrolet Roadster.From reading “Classic Cars” I borrowed when I was a teen,these special interest cars apparently went on the Caravans.Later this was discontinued and it might be a good idea to bring it back.I do not feel the PAS excludes pre-1916 Pierce Arrows but one must remember that not many pre-1916 Pierce Arrows are still around and they rarely change hands.
Richard, once the CCCA acceptance for any year was given approval, all Pierce Arrow cars were instantly approved. No Pierce Arrow car ever needed approval on a series basis. There were very few cars that were automatically accepted this way. Rolls Royce was one. Cars like Simplex, Crane, Packard, ect were all required to be vetted by the classification committee. There were too many car companies that didnâ€™t hold to the standard every year. An example would be Peerless, Gardner, Moon, and many others. If you ask me, I was ok with them going earlier than 1925 on a selective basis. I think the leap from before and after WW1 would have been a logical cut off for Pierce. Since the mentality was for the club to be more â€œinclusiveâ€ they went back to 1915. I didnâ€™t understand why an exclusive car club felt a need to become inclusive, which diluted the list of approved cars that really didnâ€™t belong there. Thatâ€™s when the PAS became the only club I was active in for many, many years.
The CCCA as we know went back to 1925 for many years and of all the makes listed there were models of a number of these makes that were excluded.I suspect why they went back to 1915 was that was the first year of the V8 Cadillac and the L head Mercer for example.Interestingly enough I believe the left hand drive Locomobile of 1914 is considered a Classic since it is the virtually same as the Locomobiles that followed it.Peerless had their T head 48 in 1915.To try to do separate years for each make would have no doubt increased their work load.when I submitted my letter on going back to 1916,i also submitted a list of all the cars from 1916 that should be considered as Classics such as the Phianna,Leach and other high quality cars of that 1916-1924 which did not really have a club of their own and are highly interesting and many carried custom coachwork.Again this is not going to cause a huge influx of members.There are people who want the CCCA to take in cars post 1948.The big issue I see for this car hobby is disposable income and when I read that 40 or so percent of the American population cannot raise $400 to meet a family emergency,how are they going to afford any collector car? I have been in this hobby since I was a child and remember when one could build up a Model T Ford with parts out of field or arroyo.In the end though I think a Packard Twin Six at a Grand Classic makes for a beautiful sight.It is all about preserving history.
Yes, when I joined CCCA ca 1981 there was no doubt that the club’s original interest was high end luxury cars built between 1925 and 1939. Within its original year limits all Pierce-Arrows were considered Classics. All Senior Packards in that original date range were but Junior Packards were not, unless on a case by case basis they had exemplary custom coachwork. Likewise I believe even Ford’s were accepted if they had exemplary custom coachwork installed when new. A few years before Lincoln Continentals to 1948 were given Classic status, as it was hard to argue that a 1941 Continental was a Classic but a 1948 that was the same car except for cosmetics wasn’t. From there a number of lower priced late 1930’s and 1940’s Cadillacs were added because it was hard to argue that they were substantially different than the more expensive models that were given Classic status. I know many old car people assumed that the years would be extended into the 1950’s as the cars got older, so it was surprise to me to learn they went the other way.
I would think the mistake was unintentional printing error.
On this site I am never sure when the snide comments about Packard are to be taken at face value and when they are just tongue-in-cheek joking. I have no doubt that if I showed up at a western region Packard tour with my Pierce I would be welcome and the car would be appreciated. On the other hand at this point I don’t feel like I would ever dare to show up at a Pierce meet with my Packard.
I like all pre war cars, and have owned lots of them. Currently I have a 1915 Ford T, and I enjoy it and the T club very much. When you own a T there are basically only three tiers of cars 1916 and later, 1915 to 1909, and the rate two pedal cars. No one worries about damage, breaking down, ect. They are just pure fun.
The Model T Ford Club of Albuquerque better known as The Tin Lizzies of Albuquerque is a very active club that seems to be growing.The Pocos Quatros Model Ford Club as well as the Tumble Weed V8 Ford Club also are very active.I have been to a Pierce Arrow Society National Meet in a Porsche and everything was fine.I can concur on Model T Fords as I have several and really enjoyed them.My first was when I was a teen I bought for $100 and drove it home from Los Alamos To Santa Fe with no problems.I think the guy who sold it tome liked the idea of a kid who loved antique cars.
I just copied this from the CCCA website: CCCA Approved Classics (updated 4/1/2019).
“Pierce-Arrow â€“ 1915-1924; All; 1921 Series 32; 1922 and up Series 33; 1925 All.”
And Ed, you were saying what about ALL P-A cars being included?
BTW, this discussion seems to be going downhill and I take some responsibility for rolling certain marques over the cliff.
It just would have been simpler just to say all Pierce Arrows from 1915 through 1938.The They are trying to say that but the wording is confusing.This could be a typo and perhaps someone needs to bring it to their attention so things can be corrected.
They pushed the dates earlier twice……..so thatâ€™s why the wording is the way it is. First you could go back to 1921, than they went to 1915. The correct wording they should use is: Pierce-Arrow 1915-1938 All.
When I attend CCCA events the movement is to ’41 Cadillacs and ’47 top end
Packards. I’m waiting for their acceptance for my 1915 T Touring before I
join. There’s hope. They’ve got the year part right.
Our Pierce has been in the family around 55 years.
Not long after my grandfather acquired the Pierce, my grandfather and my father attended a few CCCA events.
Let’s just say the members were less than welcoming.
Unfortunately, that first experience set the tone for all car clubs in my grandfather’s mind and he never pursued participation or membership in any car clubs or organizations after that.
My father and uncles were active with the Roaring 20’s Car Club in the 60’s and 70’s driving their Chrysler, Franklins and Rickenbacker on many, many tours.
It wasn’t until the 90’s that I looked into the PAS and visited with Jack Combs that I joined the PAS for a short time.
I rejoined in 2006 and have been a member of the finest, most welcoming and most helpful car organization ever since.
I guess the moral of the story is that one negative experience with a single organization can color someone’s views of all similar organizations.
That is why it is so important the PAS is such a great example of an auto enthusiast’s organization.
As of the last publication of the CCCA board meeting that I read, within the past few months, the membership in the CCCA was down to 857 members. The passing of older members, and the influx of more modern cars, rods, etc. do not bode well for many old car clubs. Indeed, when I was president of the PAS, membership was around 1100. We too have dropped significantly below that figure also since that time period. I have no resolution for this situation, except to wait and see.