1932 12 phaeton for sale……..

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    What a car, though I’d have to cgange fenders…


    I can’t put in URL box because it adds another http ….





    What were the states that would not allow the frog eye fenders???

    super cool car!! Is that price in the realm of value??



    Good question. I’ve always heard the bracket headlights called “New York Headlights”, as if fender-mounted headlights were illegal in New York. But I doubt that is true. The cars were made in New York, after all. Maybe it referred to New York City??

    Other than that, I thought bracket headlights were simply a buyer’s option.

    I’ll also appreciate an explanation.

    — Luke


    There was a thread awhile back about the bracket headlights.

    If I remember correctly, one of our members researched NY laws and could not find a law relating to them being illegal in New York.


    The “New York” style headlights is just urban legend. I have a dozen photographs from the 30’s with cars that have New York plates on them and fender lights. The rumor is often mentioned but has never been substantiated.


    Ed is correct, of course. I searched and searched New York State laws and there is no reference to headlights.

    At one time there was a New York City ordinance that specified that lights had to be within a certain distance apart, but I don’t think that’s the reason any Pierce left the factory with bracket headlights.

    I believe, as Luke mentions, that it was just a buyer’s option. Then, as now, there were people who appreciated the quality of the Pierce product, but didn’t like the looks of the fender headlights. The late Ron Barnett, who was AACA President at one time, got in my ’31 for a ride once. As he sat down, he said, “you know, I hate the way the fender lights look on the car, but sitting inside they aren’t bad!”…..

    As Ed says, the rumor has been repeated so many times that some people take it as gospel. There are tons of examples of this. Stanley Brothers would give a free car to anyone holding a Stanley throttle full open for one minute. Rolls Royce heads are sealed for life. Henry Ford saying “History is bunk”, that’s not the entire quote. Speaking of Henry, he didn’t invent the assembly line, as is commonly thought. The list goes on. Just like today, if something is repeated by enough people, it becomes “fact”….


    It’s interesting how when PAS people see a car without fender lamps, they look upon the car differently. Personally, I wouldn’t own a Pierce without them. Many others feel the exact opposite………but they tend to drive one of the other “Three P’s”. Having been fortunate to have extensively driven most of the “great makes” for many miles over different conditions, I can honestly say my very high opinion of Pierce Arrow motor cars has not changed. A properly sorted and tuned Piece Arrow is a fantastic car by anyone’s definition. I have only been overtaken under protest by a Duesenberg Model J being driven by a very enthusiastic gentleman pounding the hell out of his car………as I was doing to my Pierce! Please be assured, I upheld the honor of our famous marque. Shortly after the performance contest, the J gave up the ghost and went home on a trailer…….the mighty Pierce twelve motored happily on. For years after, the driver of the J, Phill Bray would always greet me as the young man from Massachusetts with the fastest flathead on earth……..a compliment I still enjoy to this day. As for validation, just ask Tony Costa how the 1602 drives………I think the exact term he used was “flying”.


    My experience with driving a Pierce 12 was with my ’34 production Silver Arrow at the Dallas meet, 1985.

    We were heading out the rolling hills of Texas to the Pate Museum. My car had a slight fuel problem, and I pulled over. Trouble truck stopped, we fixed issue but it took a little time.

    Realizing we were late for lunch, I sort of put my foot closer to the floor than I had before, and to use Tony’s relevant term, we “flew” to the museum. The car was not straining, we were going fast, but I had no idea how fast since the speedometer was on the fritz. This was an unrestored, 1960’s “dust it off and paint it” kind of car.

    We got to the museum, and in a little bit the trouble truck drove up. He walked up to me and asked, how fast were you going? Saying I had no idea, he continued, well, in the truck following you I was going 75, and you pulled way ahead of me!

    Later, I sold the car to obtain a ’37 Cord phaeton. The new owner picked it up in Dallas (I delivered it there) and proceeded to drive it to Washington State. He later told me that he had it over 100 on one of the straight stretches out west, although that had to be a guess, as no speedometer and before the era of GPS cell phones.

    I wish I were in the position to negotiate on this car, what a beauty….


    It’s a great car and an old friend from my early teen years going to car shows in New England. Only thing wrong with it is I don’t own it.


    I can only maintain that Ab Jenkins is alive and well in Edgar R. Minnie

    II. If only I had reflected harder about why nobody but me had taken Ed’s

    kind offer to lap Watkins Glen Race Track in a V12 at all out speed for 3

    laps, perhaps my hair wouldn’t have whitened at such a young age! It would

    have helped to have disc brakes that day as the brakes had faded away and

    the car behaved like a whale in the turns. Ed kind of reminds me of the

    Wind In The Willows Toad character who experiences massive behavior changes

    when exposed to the power that fine motorcars unleash.


    LOL…….Tony, you know our shop motto………”Drive it like you stole it!”👍


    To answer Richard Leroy’s question regarding price. That price is in my opinion a price that might be obtained at an auction where two or more bidders with deep pockets and not wanting to be outbid went at it over this car.

    For me, if I’m paying for a Pierce Arrow, it damn well ought to LOOK like a Pierce Arrow, So put fenders on it with headlights.

    There were very few open cars built in ’32 with a V12 engine, The V12 was more common in the long-wheel base cars and custom bodied cars.

    A very nice car, wonderful to me colors, but I’d like fender headlights..

    And, i just happen to have a right side nearly new or possibly NOS front fender for a ’32.

    Greg Long


    The 1247 Series fenders and parking light brackets are different than the shorter wheelbase cars…….different shape and bigger wheel wells. The price for the car is just about correct market retail. It’s lots of car, rare and unusual, and zi am sure it will find a home. I have had a bunch of people call and email me on the car.


    The car has had a 15k price drop to 250k



    When the price drops to $200K, it will sell. At least that is what my cloudy, finger-printed, chipped and miss-shaped ‘Crystal-Ball’ is indicating to me..

    If it was a Convertible Coupe it would have sold already.

    A 1932 V12 Convertible Coupe/Roadster sold at the RM Auction at Hershey in 2014 or 2015 for $405,000.00

    It was an older restoration of a very rare car.

    As is this nice V12 Touring car.

    Greg Long

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